Home General
Welcome to Harry Potter Forum! Below you will find many interesting threads and discussions. Enjoy.

Someone please explain the Harry/Voldemort battle to me.

BaneBane Posts: 9,869 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2011 in General
So in the film version, they fight longer.

But how?

If Voldemort has the Elder Wand, which he does, and Harry is the rightful owner of it, then how do they have an extended duel?

Obviously the logistics are going to change around a bit. It's just really confusing based on what we've seen and what Rowling wrote. I know people complained that it was short in the book, but it made sense.

Also, say the "fight" is just Voldemort beating Harry up, and Harry finally gets to a wand and then performs the rebound, why is it that their spells are connected with the Priori Incantatem effect? Like they're holding it in the same way that they do in Goblet. When the Elder Wand is reclaimed, it IMMEDIATELY rebounds whatever spell was used and the wand flies out of the possessor's hand into the rightful owner's hand. So, why are they just holding out a spell connection?

I just really, really don't understand it at all.
«13

Comments

  • NickNick Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭✭
    in the fim verse they can and DO CHANGE WHATEVER THEY WANT. I think they will completely IGNORE the whole wand allegiance subplot and just make it harry is more powerful than violdermort. there is no other way around it.
  • JasonJason Posts: 7,279 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It all for dramatic effect. If the duel was as short as it was in the book, then it would have probably felt anti-climactic after the big battle they just had(Battle of Hogwarts) and everything that it took Harry to get to that position.

    I'm with you on wondering how they will work around the lore of the Elder Wand. Harry is suppose to be really bloody and injured at the end of the Battle and I can't see Voldemort causing all of that without using magic.
    image
  • NickNick Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2011
    could this be the big change in the plot that has been alluded to since the set reports came out for part 1?
  • BaneBane Posts: 9,869 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm fine with changes and I'm MORE than fine with extending the, what, 10+ year awaited confrontation between hero and villain? I'm just wondering how they're approaching the Elder Wand logic.
  • NickNick Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this is DEFINITELY MOST LIKELY THE MAJOR PLOT CHANGE EVREYONE HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT
  • MicroFXMicroFX Posts: 555 ✭✭
    When they lock spells, we go into slow motion as you can see in the trailer, and it is similar to the slow motion in part 1 during the ministry battle, and the way Harry Defeats Voldemort is very similar to the sky battle, as we see a close up on Voldemort with the elder wand and we see it leave his hand.
  • jonny7003jonny7003 Posts: 3,771 ✭✭
    When they lock spells, we go into slow motion as you can see in the trailer, and it is similar to the slow motion in part 1 during the ministry battle, and the way Harry Defeats Voldemort is very similar to the sky battle, as we see a close up on Voldemort with the elder wand and we see it leave his hand.
    You are amazing. Extremely amazing. Thanks for sharing that piece of info. :)

  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I sincerly hope that they don't end up slow moing everything just because it's going to be in 3D, now...

    Lord Stafford.
    image
  • dashape80dashape80 Posts: 1,238
    edited February 2011
    Also, say the "fight" is just Voldemort beating Harry up, and Harry finally gets to a wand and then performs the rebound, why is it that their spells are connected with the Priori Incantatem effect? Like they're holding it in the same way that they do in Goblet.
    I wouldn't say that it's the Priori Incantatem effect we have seen in GOF. The same thing happens with Dumbledore and Voldemort duel in the ministry in OOTP. The only way it's Priori Incantatem (at least in the movies) is if that giant sphere/bubble emerges from the collision of the spells and engulfs the combatants.

    As far as the Elder Wand not rebounding right away, seems this might have changed (or is in slow motion like Micro FX suggested).

    image
  • The Best WizardThe Best Wizard Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭
    When they lock spells, we go into slow motion as you can see in the trailer, and it is similar to the slow motion in part 1 during the ministry battle, and the way Harry Defeats Voldemort is very similar to the sky battle, as we see a close up on Voldemort with the elder wand and we see it leave his hand.
    Thanks MicroFX. And the way that happens in the movie, happens in the book. Two spells collide and Voldemort loses the elder wand.
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,713 mod
    woah slo mo is awesome ive always wanted that! Hopefully they use an epic track or perhaps just a heart beat effect! :)
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    woah slo mo is awesome ive always wanted that! Hopefully they use an epic track or perhaps just a heart beat effect! :)
    That thing about the heartbeat is the definition of cheese, other than real cheese, of course! ;-)

    Lord Stafford.
    image
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,713 mod
    LOL well something silent or something loud and epic..
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LOL well something silent or something loud and epic..
    Probs neither will be the case, lol, as Desplat isn't bombastic enough and neither is he the type of JW!

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,713 mod
    here we go..... again.
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What? I'm just saying, please could stop insinuating that i'm moaning and calling someone crap, i am merely giving my own opinion and stating a fact! He is not the same type as JW, since with JW, there will always be epic and loud music themes flowing through whatever film he is doing (Star Wars, Indy and of course... Harry Potter) Desplat prefers the subtle approach, much like Hooper, Whilst Doyle was doing the same as JW, Ross was just doing the conducting/composing as JW wrote...

    Lord Stafford.
    image
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,713 mod
    I know that but desplat is good enough.
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know that but desplat is good enough.
    Absolutely, so i don't know why you were saying here we go again... clearly when you were accusing me of whinging and whining.

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,713 mod
    Here we go again about the williams VS desplat thingy...
  • GinaCGinaC Posts: 828 ✭✭
    Sounds pretty cool! I guess they have to embellish it slightly with slo-mo rather than just a quick collision with a cannon boom. It would probably come across as a bit anti-climactic otherwise, I guess. I hope they don't over-do it, though. Didn't I read something about voice-overs or something while the spells are colliding? Is that confirmed?
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here we go again about the williams VS desplat thingy...
    Shut it, you know full well exactly what i mean, lol... right?! =P~

    Lord Stafford.
    image
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,713 mod
    Yeah but theres no point
  • GodricGryffindorGodricGryffindor Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Richard,
    but anyways - the thing
    that intrigues me the most
    is the whole "WHY DO YOU
    LIVE?" Montage.
    I wonder how they'll introduce
    it into the film and the battle OVERALL.


    G.G.
    image
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah but theres no point
    Then, i would suggest... we both shut the hell up, and finally dismiss the conversation about this. Are you ok with that?!

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,713 mod
    um,what conversation?
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    um,what conversation?
    Conversation, debate, whatever... the one that arised about JW and Desplat, this is it, end it now, both of us will...

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • GinaCGinaC Posts: 828 ✭✭
    edited February 2011
    um,what conversation?
    Conversation, debate, whatever... the one that arised about JW and Desplat, this is it, end it now, both of us will...

    Lord Stafford.

    I heard a bit of Dumbledore's "did what?" intonation when Richard asks, "what conversation?" ;-)
    I agree with Richard,
    but anyways - the thing
    that intrigues me the most
    is the whole "WHY DO YOU
    LIVE?" Montage.
    I wonder how they'll introduce
    it into the film and the battle OVERALL.


    G.G.
    My GUESS is that it's just part of the dialogue they have during their final duel where Harry explains everything, including why Voldy's spells aren't working.
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was hoping they would keep the whole circling thing in there, and now it seems like we're not getting it the that way...

    Lord Stafford.
    image
  • bdrgebdrge Posts: 265
    I was hoping they would keep the whole circling thing in there, and now it seems like we're not getting it the that way...

    Lord Stafford.
    That's the plotchange. They've done it like this to make it more cinematic and to make it last last longer.
    Photobucket
  • dobby_freak19dobby_freak19 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭
    I dont agree either...because
    1.- no spell would do anything to harry, and that would make voldemt look extremely dumb!
    2.- voldemort doesnt wanna fight harry anymore, he just wants to kill him. he shows that when in the forest again he shoots to kill, and he just wants to get over it (chapter 1: "i have made many mistakes where harry potter is concerned, that he is alive is due more to my error than to his thriumps")
    so....no sense at all of extending it :S
    On the other hand i agree that they must do it because there will be morons saying "all this and they dont fight, this is shit!" and its a pitty
    because the way JK rowling came out was wittier than a simple fighting...it was genious! :D But people wont realize that
    image
    Hope you like it!
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was hoping they would keep the whole circling thing in there, and now it seems like we're not getting it the that way...

    Lord Stafford.
    That's the plotchange. They've done it like this to make it more cinematic and to make it last last longer.
    Except, this wouldn't last longer without boring us all, its far better the way of the book...

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • NickNick Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭✭
    im happy they changed the final duel and even happier its not in the great hall surrounded by people!!!
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I dont agree either...because
    1.- no spell would do anything to harry, and that would make voldemt look extremely dumb!
    2.- voldemort doesnt wanna fight harry anymore, he just wants to kill him. he shows that when in the forest again he shoots to kill, and he just wants to get over it (chapter 1: "i have made many mistakes where harry potter is concerned, that he is alive is due more to my error than to his thriumps")
    so....no sense at all of extending it :S
    On the other hand i agree that they must do it because there will be morons saying "all this and they dont fight, this is shit!" and its a pitty
    because the way JK rowling came out was wittier than a simple fighting...it was genious! :D But people wont realize that
    I will realize this, i always have.

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • GinaCGinaC Posts: 828 ✭✭
    I was hoping they would keep the whole circling thing in there, and now it seems like we're not getting it the that way...

    Lord Stafford.
    I don't think we know for sure they won't be circling each other, but I hope they will too! I sooo hope they aren't trying to change the penultimate moment too much. They did such a great job with part 1 (and I'm a bit of a purist!) that I'm trying to have faith!

  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was hoping they would keep the whole circling thing in there, and now it seems like we're not getting it the that way...

    Lord Stafford.
    I don't think we know for sure they won't be circling each other, but I hope they will too! I sooo hope they aren't trying to change the penultimate moment too much. They did such a great job with part 1 (and I'm a bit of a purist!) that I'm trying to have faith!

    Already they think two people standing face to face is too repetitive, or at least it appears that way. Changing the big, last moment... what are they thinking, the filmmakers? What is the point, that is what i wanna know, as it is clearly so much better in the way of the book!

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • NickNick Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭✭
    nope i disagree having it like the book would come off as cheese
  • dobby_freak19dobby_freak19 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭
    I dont agree either...because
    1.- no spell would do anything to harry, and that would make voldemt look extremely dumb!
    2.- voldemort doesnt wanna fight harry anymore, he just wants to kill him. he shows that when in the forest again he shoots to kill, and he just wants to get over it (chapter 1: "i have made many mistakes where harry potter is concerned, that he is alive is due more to my error than to his thriumps")
    so....no sense at all of extending it :S
    On the other hand i agree that they must do it because there will be morons saying "all this and they dont fight, this is shit!" and its a pitty
    because the way JK rowling came out was wittier than a simple fighting...it was genious! :D But people wont realize that
    I will realize this, i always have.

    Lord Stafford.

    yeah, we all do! i meant regular viewers (action lovers) ...the substance fo the meaning of the final confrontation is just too much, besides it requires a total undertsanding of the plot, wich non-readers lack a lot
    image
    Hope you like it!
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    nope i disagree having it like the book would come off as cheese
    BULLSHIT. Then so would everything else, may i ask?

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • GinaCGinaC Posts: 828 ✭✭
    If the filmmakers do their job, the viewers would understand. They just need to include most of the dialogue in that final duel. Whether they will is questionable since they certainly have never explained Priori Incantatem or half of the Prophecy...but this is the actual finale here. As I said, they got all the important stuff in Part 1 and did a super adaptation! I think we should just wait for confirmation about big changes and not get too upset just yet.
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the filmmakers do their job, the viewers would understand. They just need to include most of the dialogue in that final duel. Whether they will is questionable since they certainly have never explained Priori Incantatem or half of the Prophecy...but this is the actual finale here. As I said, they got all the important stuff in Part 1 and did a super adaptation! I think we should just wait for confirmation about big changes and not get too upset just yet.
    Absolutely right, though they shouldn't think, just because they have two films that one could be the explanatory one and the other as the battle with little of the substance, they should include everything... because what is the point in having two films if you fail at it, people will just say that they did it for the money, which is certainly a small part of the actual deal.

    Now is not the time for excuses, and it is also not the time for them to think that it should only be about 2 hours, just because they've already had another 2. You make the biggest and longest film you can, not think back to how long the last one was.

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • dobby_freak19dobby_freak19 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭
    If the filmmakers do their job, the viewers would understand. They just need to include most of the dialogue in that final duel. Whether they will is questionable since they certainly have never explained Priori Incantatem or half of the Prophecy...but this is the actual finale here. As I said, they got all the important stuff in Part 1 and did a super adaptation! I think we should just wait for confirmation about big changes and not get too upset just yet.

    in that aspect they´ve done everything the needed too...important details i mean
    they showed draco disarming dumbledore
    and as dumb as it looked they also showed harry taking dracos wands in MM
    So thats settled, they just need to give us voldemort saying to snape WHY he has to kill him and that´ll do it. the explanation will be clear
    image
    Hope you like it!
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to non readers it won't be, the prophecy alone is hard enough for a reader to understand in the film (OOTP) let alone for non... but then again, so is everything else in that film.

    Lord Stafford.
    image
  • dobby_freak19dobby_freak19 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭
    Not to non readers it won't be, the prophecy alone is hard enough for a reader to understand in the film (OOTP) let alone for non... but then again, so is everything else in that film.

    Lord Stafford.
    yeah i guess youre right....many mistakes in the past films damn it
    image
    Hope you like it!
  • bdrgebdrge Posts: 265
    edited February 2011
    and they're just not gonna solve mistakes made in the previous films. Like the 2-way mirror, they could have put it in the sirius' bedroom scene, but no just let harry have it without telling how he got it and what it does. >.<
    Photobucket
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    and they're just not gonna solve mistakes made in the previous films. Like the 2-way mirror, they could have put it in the sirius' bedroom scene, but no just let harry have it without telling how he got it and what it does. >.<</p>
    Exactly, if it (Part 1) was meant for explanatory, then they certainly failed at it...

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • JasonJason Posts: 7,279 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure that whatever they do, it will follow the lore set by JKR. She is one of the producers so they probably went to her and got an idea of what they can do.
    image
  • SwedishSkinJerSwedishSkinJer Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭
    Not to non readers it won't be, the prophecy alone is hard enough for a reader to understand in the film (OOTP) let alone for non... but then again, so is everything else in that film.

    Lord Stafford.
    "Everything" is a bit of an exaggeration, but then again that's a matter of perception. As far as the prophecy is concerned, I've always wondered if the 40+ minutes that were cut from the Director's Cut of OotP included an extended conversation between Harry and Dumbledore. Truth be told, I think it will be able to fit into the cinematic structure that's been established; it will just be simplified.
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure that whatever they do, it will follow the lore set by JKR. She is one of the producers so they probably went to her and got an idea of what they can do.
    She doesn't seem to mind whatever they change now, though... no matter how big it is, there is going to be a supposed big plot change in the next one, why would she allow that? This is all i'm wondering, so please don't accuse me of moaning, otherwise i'll bitch slap you all, lol! :-W

    Lord Stafford.
    image
  • Lord StaffordLord Stafford Posts: 27,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to non readers it won't be, the prophecy alone is hard enough for a reader to understand in the film (OOTP) let alone for non... but then again, so is everything else in that film.

    Lord Stafford.
    "Everything" is a bit of an exaggeration, but then again that's a matter of perception. As far as the prophecy is concerned, I've always wondered if the 40+ minutes that were cut from the Director's Cut of OotP included an extended conversation between Harry and Dumbledore. Truth be told, I think it will be able to fit into the cinematic structure that's been established; it will just be simplified.
    Perhaps you're right, in fact... you are. But, you could easily pick just about anything in it (OOTP) and find something to be a plot hole.

    Lord Stafford.

    image
  • What? I'm just saying, please could stop insinuating that i'm moaning and calling someone crap, i am merely giving my own opinion and stating a fact! He is not the same type as JW, since with JW, there will always be epic and loud music themes flowing through whatever film he is doing (Star Wars, Indy and of course... Harry Potter) Desplat prefers the subtle approach, much like Hooper, Whilst Doyle was doing the same as JW

    Lord Stafford.
    Amen.
Sign In or Register to comment.