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Harry vs Voldemort in DH2: Why it's a brilliant piece of filmmaking
@LordStafford - I didn't want the other thread to go too off topic so I thought I'd address your points of it being "pointless" here.
When Harry reveals himself to Voldemort, the second half of the battle of Hogwarts begins. Voldemort's rage leads him to throw Neville like he's nothing. Harry leads him away from the battle for one important reason: to protect the others. Voldemort is a danger to others, as proven with Neville, but not to Harry. Harry has already won. Harry knows he has won. All he needs to do now is to make sure the others stay safe, so to do that, he leads Voldemort away from the main battle.
The first look we get is Harry by himself in a debris filled hallway with plenty of dust.
Here are two screencaps given by @Aaron and @Bane in this thread:
http://harrypotterforum.com/discussion/10285/deathly-hallows-part-2-cinematography-one-post-one-frame
This scene shows Harry alone. He's scattered. In his final battle, the most important moment in his life, he himself is lost in the maze that is Hogwarts. The wide, centered shot shows him completely alone. It shows the bodies of dead students. Even though he has won, perhaps he hasn't figured it out yet. What if he's wrong? His goal was to get Voldemort away, and he has. Now he needs to duel him, something he's gotten away by twin cores in GOF and by Dumbledore in OOTP. Now he has to stand and fight, and he's scared. It all comes down to this, a fight for his life.
Finally, he finds Voldemort and they begin dueling. He fires one spell as a surprise, but then after that, he's completely on the defensive. Harry knows that Voldemort is a better and more experienced wizard. Harry isn't going to win this duel by attacking, but by buying himself time to kill Nagini. He plays it smart. Instead of attacking Voldemort, he causes a diversion by letting the rubble fall between them. Voldemort just manages to stop him from killing Nagini, and so comes the next portion of the battle.
Voldemort gets Harry and starts beating him like a muggle. That's what it has come to for the supposed "greatest wizard" of all time. He can't beat Harry. 17 years and he can't defeat one boy. He's lost it. He's had enough. He turns into the one thing that he despises above everything else: muggles. This Voldemort destroys any Voldemort in any of the other films. This one has the most personality, is the most deceiving, has the most character, the biggest moodswings, the biggest rage, fear, etcetc. Ralph hits it out of the park with this Voldemort, and this scene here really seals the deal. He's dropped himself from great wizard to a muggle. He's physically beating Harry. He doesn't know what else to do, he just lets rage consume him. It's brilliantly shot and put together. Harry just gets back and taunts him, which leads to the cliff jump.
There are two main purposes for this scene. One is to buy time for Nagini to be killed, and the other more important one, is to mock Voldemort. Harry essentially tells him: "I know something you don't." That idea is appalling to Voldemort, there's no possible way the boy could know something he doesn't. For the tiniest space of time, perhaps right before another attempt to kill him, Harry sends them both over.
The entire apparation sequence is a cinematic pleasure. Great music, great effects, just a great scene all around. The entire reasoning behind it again, the mocking of Voldemort. Harry knows Voldemort will apparate to safety. Harry knows Voldemort is a giant coward. He uses all of this to his advantage and shows it. Harry was willing to die in the forest and he's willing to die now. Voldemort isn't. Voldemort can't possibly accept the fact that falling would kill them both and that he still had a horcrux in Nagini, even in danger. The thought would never cross his mind. He had to stay alive. This was Harry's advantage.
Looking at this shot, why is someone laughing? It's obviously Voldemort right? Well, no, it isn't. What the hell does Voldemort have to laugh about? Elder Wand not working? Harry still alive? Death Eaters leaving him? His power weakening? Oh yes, very reasonable for him to be laughing. What about Harry? He's just made a fool out of Voldemort and is about to win. More brilliance and PURPOSE behind everything.
Now to the final courtyard scene. Harry is still buying time for Nagini's death, but he can't wait any longer. The two spells collide in a great, final scene.
The bodies, the ruins, the slowly rising sunset. What's not to love? Neville comes to the rescue with the sword of gryffindor, giving the overall feeling: "HOLY FUCK THIS IS IT THIS IS IT FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!"
I never questioned the decision to make Voldemort's eyes blue back in GOF for emotion reasons. I didn't really see any reason to complain, so I thought, whatever. Now I praise that decision. Look at the watery, emotional eyes of Voldemort right there. You know he's hurt and he's just plain shocked. It's truly fantastic.
Cue the epic score by Mr. Desplat and we go back to one final spell collision. This time Voldemort dies and slowly floats away. There's a lot of hate for this scene, but the "its all for 3D" is completely rubbish.
The film hints at Voldemort's decaying body plenty of times. He inspects his flaking arms TWICE, when the diadem is destroyed and then in the boathouse. Also, in the forest, you can see (other than his neck rolls) that his skin is flaking. It builds up with hints and foreshadowing.
People will complain he should die like a human. Why does that symbolism actually matter so much? Another type of symbolism, a devil-like, unhuman kind, could be used. He twisted himself so much with dark magic, went beyond the realm of the normal human that he no longer was one, so he did not die like one. I really don't see why that simple shot is done PURELY for 3D. I doubt they're sitting around spitballing ideas to say: "okay, what works best for 3D?" I mean there are legitimate reasons behind them, the fact that it might be very jarring for Voldemort to just die and fall immediately. They tried it, as we all know now, and probably saw something that didn't work. Lily's theme with Voldemort floating away in front of a demolished Hogwarts with the sunrise? That shot is beauty at it's finest my friend.
So there you have it. There's a purpose to everything done in the battle and it's all done beautifully. I'd love to here legitimate reasons to those who think otherwise, I'm open to debate.
When Harry reveals himself to Voldemort, the second half of the battle of Hogwarts begins. Voldemort's rage leads him to throw Neville like he's nothing. Harry leads him away from the battle for one important reason: to protect the others. Voldemort is a danger to others, as proven with Neville, but not to Harry. Harry has already won. Harry knows he has won. All he needs to do now is to make sure the others stay safe, so to do that, he leads Voldemort away from the main battle.
The first look we get is Harry by himself in a debris filled hallway with plenty of dust.
Here are two screencaps given by @Aaron and @Bane in this thread:
http://harrypotterforum.com/discussion/10285/deathly-hallows-part-2-cinematography-one-post-one-frame
This scene shows Harry alone. He's scattered. In his final battle, the most important moment in his life, he himself is lost in the maze that is Hogwarts. The wide, centered shot shows him completely alone. It shows the bodies of dead students. Even though he has won, perhaps he hasn't figured it out yet. What if he's wrong? His goal was to get Voldemort away, and he has. Now he needs to duel him, something he's gotten away by twin cores in GOF and by Dumbledore in OOTP. Now he has to stand and fight, and he's scared. It all comes down to this, a fight for his life.
Finally, he finds Voldemort and they begin dueling. He fires one spell as a surprise, but then after that, he's completely on the defensive. Harry knows that Voldemort is a better and more experienced wizard. Harry isn't going to win this duel by attacking, but by buying himself time to kill Nagini. He plays it smart. Instead of attacking Voldemort, he causes a diversion by letting the rubble fall between them. Voldemort just manages to stop him from killing Nagini, and so comes the next portion of the battle.
Voldemort gets Harry and starts beating him like a muggle. That's what it has come to for the supposed "greatest wizard" of all time. He can't beat Harry. 17 years and he can't defeat one boy. He's lost it. He's had enough. He turns into the one thing that he despises above everything else: muggles. This Voldemort destroys any Voldemort in any of the other films. This one has the most personality, is the most deceiving, has the most character, the biggest moodswings, the biggest rage, fear, etcetc. Ralph hits it out of the park with this Voldemort, and this scene here really seals the deal. He's dropped himself from great wizard to a muggle. He's physically beating Harry. He doesn't know what else to do, he just lets rage consume him. It's brilliantly shot and put together. Harry just gets back and taunts him, which leads to the cliff jump.
There are two main purposes for this scene. One is to buy time for Nagini to be killed, and the other more important one, is to mock Voldemort. Harry essentially tells him: "I know something you don't." That idea is appalling to Voldemort, there's no possible way the boy could know something he doesn't. For the tiniest space of time, perhaps right before another attempt to kill him, Harry sends them both over.
The entire apparation sequence is a cinematic pleasure. Great music, great effects, just a great scene all around. The entire reasoning behind it again, the mocking of Voldemort. Harry knows Voldemort will apparate to safety. Harry knows Voldemort is a giant coward. He uses all of this to his advantage and shows it. Harry was willing to die in the forest and he's willing to die now. Voldemort isn't. Voldemort can't possibly accept the fact that falling would kill them both and that he still had a horcrux in Nagini, even in danger. The thought would never cross his mind. He had to stay alive. This was Harry's advantage.
Looking at this shot, why is someone laughing? It's obviously Voldemort right? Well, no, it isn't. What the hell does Voldemort have to laugh about? Elder Wand not working? Harry still alive? Death Eaters leaving him? His power weakening? Oh yes, very reasonable for him to be laughing. What about Harry? He's just made a fool out of Voldemort and is about to win. More brilliance and PURPOSE behind everything.
Now to the final courtyard scene. Harry is still buying time for Nagini's death, but he can't wait any longer. The two spells collide in a great, final scene.
The bodies, the ruins, the slowly rising sunset. What's not to love? Neville comes to the rescue with the sword of gryffindor, giving the overall feeling: "HOLY FUCK THIS IS IT THIS IS IT FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!"
I never questioned the decision to make Voldemort's eyes blue back in GOF for emotion reasons. I didn't really see any reason to complain, so I thought, whatever. Now I praise that decision. Look at the watery, emotional eyes of Voldemort right there. You know he's hurt and he's just plain shocked. It's truly fantastic.
Cue the epic score by Mr. Desplat and we go back to one final spell collision. This time Voldemort dies and slowly floats away. There's a lot of hate for this scene, but the "its all for 3D" is completely rubbish.
The film hints at Voldemort's decaying body plenty of times. He inspects his flaking arms TWICE, when the diadem is destroyed and then in the boathouse. Also, in the forest, you can see (other than his neck rolls) that his skin is flaking. It builds up with hints and foreshadowing.
People will complain he should die like a human. Why does that symbolism actually matter so much? Another type of symbolism, a devil-like, unhuman kind, could be used. He twisted himself so much with dark magic, went beyond the realm of the normal human that he no longer was one, so he did not die like one. I really don't see why that simple shot is done PURELY for 3D. I doubt they're sitting around spitballing ideas to say: "okay, what works best for 3D?" I mean there are legitimate reasons behind them, the fact that it might be very jarring for Voldemort to just die and fall immediately. They tried it, as we all know now, and probably saw something that didn't work. Lily's theme with Voldemort floating away in front of a demolished Hogwarts with the sunrise? That shot is beauty at it's finest my friend.
So there you have it. There's a purpose to everything done in the battle and it's all done beautifully. I'd love to here legitimate reasons to those who think otherwise, I'm open to debate.
Comments
The 3D aspect of it, with more than many people who have an opinion of it, is not 'completely rubbish' To go off course as they did, is 'completely' disrespectful to Jo's material. Jo showed how it was all about love, and how, in the end, Voldemort was just a human being. Like you and i. To portray him as some kind of literal monster is not canon, and is not right. Plus, as good as Ralph is in this film, his character does not 'destroy' any other. He may be as good as he is in GOF, but not better.
You are giving me alot of 'symbolism' and 'beauty' but not alot of what makes the story what it is. I would like to hear you talk more about that, and less about how everything is symbolic and beautiful. Because, when i talk about the 'pointless' aspect of it, i am talking about the apparation, not the entire confrontation, and it's background. It just doesn't do it for me. Sometimes, music and symbolism isn't enough.
Onto your point about how Harry is holding off Voldemort, biding time for the others to kill Nagini. In many situations, Harry has no choice. When their spells collide for the second to last time, Harry is responding to Voldemort. This isn't genius, it's logic, and it's what anybody else would naturally do to hold off the curse of an opponent. Another example of you making something out of nothing.
And as much as this film is made for the fans, it also has to pertain to a general audience. In order for an audience to understand, you can't have everything layered underneath many other plot situations and scenarios. Something has to happen that makes you go 'Oh, i get that' There has to be that point, where hints and foreshadowings end. Otherwise, you shouldn't pertain to a wider audience. Of course, we all understand everything anyway, so we have no reason to worry about that. Because we are the fans, and we talk about it to the point where we have already said anything we could have said, before we've even said it. But, like i say, that 1 billion didn't come from a select group.
In closing, i will say that we are both as right as each other, and we are both as wrong as each other.
Lord Stafford.
Also, keep things separate from the book. I did my best not to mention the book at all. Look at it from just a film standpoint without mentioning the book and tell me why it's bad.
Also, why? Voldemort definitely has more of everything in DH2 than GOF. More rage, emotion, he's even a bit humuours, and he shows his deceiving handsome boy side. Why the apparation? It conveys the point of Voldemort being a coward and Harry mocking him. They stretched it out and showed them fighting and struggling rather than talking in a circle. That's the point behind it. I didn't say it was genius. Okay, it's instinct, but that's what Harry is still doing. Even if he has to react, the whole reason he's doing this is to buy time. This fact is very true when he takes Voldemort away from the battle and the cliff jump. I really don't get your point with this. Neither of us are wrong or right as they're opinions, but you the reason you gave for Voldemort's death wasn't a film complaint it was a book complaint, the thing you said about the apparation was not a big deal, and the buying time thing is true even if the last one it was instinct. The overall picture of the battle being great you haven't said anything about, you just brought up very minor points.
Mysterious thing time.
Lord Stafford.
Mysterious thing time.
Mysterious thing time.
It is an opinion, but like I said, you didn't really say anything against my point other than bringing up the book.
Mysterious thing time.
Between you and i, Martin; I will say that i've always agreed with you on how it's a 'brilliant piece of filmmaking' I want to make that clear. Because it's only natural, as you and i are both here for the exact same reason: Harry Potter.
It's called diversity. And where i might opt for the suspenseful, you might not. I may not have explained everything in the clearest way, but i'll PM you at some point, just to be doubly sure that i have.
Lord Stafford.
Nobody can deny it would have been to cool to have everyone battling around each other with Kingsley, McGonnogal and Slughorn all taking on Voldemort, also with Bellatrix dueling half the DA. Of course they would have also needed to keep Neville's "Hell freezing over" and killing of nagini in that fashion.
I'm not advocating being a purist but it would have been cool to see. Plus throw in Harry telling him to "Show a little remorse"
Mysterious thing time.
Mysterious thing time.
Maybe that's why I appreciate it so much, in addition to it being beautiful with such mindblowing music-- and the face merging part was just inspired, plain and simple. I did not expect to see such images in one of these films.
Lord Stafford.
@Pumpkinjuice Tree of Life's ending would have been 100% perfect to me if the mother hadn't said "I give him to you."
So Crucify the ego, before it's far too late, to leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical. And you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
Take for example Hermione, Luna, and Ginny against Bellatrix. Well, Hermione couldn't be involved in that because she's with Ron trying to kill Nagini. They could have still had Luna and Ginny fighting Bellatrix I suppose, but you can't have everything you want.
Like I said, can't have everything because of logic, but I felt that a great deal of the changes for the film version were good, and even somewhat better.
Lord Stafford.
Lord Stafford.
Lord Stafford.
Lord Stafford.